Brandon: What is up my friends? Welcome back to another episode of Speakeasy English, the number one podcast on the internet.

Leigh: Only if you ask your mother. 

Brandon: Alright. You probably noticed that Leigh is back here with us. Hi, Leigh.

Leigh: Hello, English speakers.

Brandon: She is, uh, addicted now after one episode and just cannot get enough of Speakeasy English. Isn’t that right? 

Leigh: Oh I love Speakeasy English.

Brandon: Oh my God, she has to, uh, because we’re married.

Leigh: I’m bound to it.

Brandon: So we hinted at this last week, but today we are going to talk about kids and dogs. And you can see in the title of this episode “kids vs dogs”. And so… today we’re…

Leigh: We throw all the food in the middle of the floor!

Brandon: We, we throw all the food each morning in the middle of the floor and let the children and dog, uh, fight for it. It’s like, what’s that movie? (Leigh: Hunger Games) It’s like, yeah, it’s like Hunger Games and, or, like, maybe Lord of the Flies. Who do you think..?

Leigh: We’re kidding. We’re kidding.

Brandon: That’s a joke. Who do you think would win in a fight right now? All three kids and the dog – who comes out on top? Who is the winner?

Leigh: Eddie. Our son. (Miles: You think?) I think. He’s got…. He’s got a good handle on grabbing the collar and pulling the dog away. 

Brandon: Yeah he understands how to manipulate the dog, how to grab his collar and subdue, uh, dominate the dog. Although they are all about the same weight. Right? They’re all probably…

Leigh: 30 pounds.

Brandon: Yeah, about 30 pounds.

Leigh: Um, I think.

Brandon: The dog has bigger teeth.

Leigh: The dog can eat faster than the kids can.

Brandon: The dog can definitely eat faster. So the dog would win the, um…

Leigh: The most food eaten. 

Brandon: The dog would eat, the dog would not fight, the dog would just eat the food. Um, okay, that’s all just a joke. 

[break]

Brandon: Today we want to talk about raising kids and raising a dog at the same time, right?

Leigh: Yes we are. We have both of those right now. We have kids and we have a dog. And they’re like both in their toddler stages, which is fun.

Brandon: A toddler is like… for humans, that’s a child that’s like what? Two or three? One, two…?

Leigh: two, three, four…

Brandon: Yeah. Two to four years old basically is referred to as a “toddler”. And the puppy… although obviously dogs grow up a lot faster than kids. (Leigh: they mature faster). But he is what?

Leigh: 12 weeks? 

Brandon: Yeah. So about three months old. Um, but in dog time they are about the same age. Um, so it’s a good… it’s a good time to have this conversation and just… we’re being lighthearted. We’re not being super serious. Right? 

Leigh: Yeah. Just, uh, shedding some light on our experiences. 

Brandon: Yeah. Shedding light means, like, elaborating on our experiences and just, uh, kind of having a good time with, uh, with all of us together. So hopefully episodes like this give you some enjoyable English content that you can listen to and enjoy, while also becoming fluent automatically just by having the daily habit of listening to English. And remember, all of the transcripts are free on our website.

Leigh: www.speakeasyenglish.club

Brandon: That’s it. speakeasyenglish.club. Um, okay, so let’s start with a question. Leigh, what is easier? Raising dogs or raising kids?

Leigh: I would say raising dogs.

Brandon: Yeah, I mean, I would hope so, right?

Leigh: We’ve done it more so far.

Brandon: Well it’s also just easier. There’s a lot that goes into raising…um

Leigh: You’re raising kids for a lot longer than you are raising dogs. 

Brandon: Yeah. I mean, it takes forever for humans to be useful, right?

Leigh: Uh, yeah.

Brandon: I mean, like, a baby deer is born, and… (Leigh: it can walk). It can walk. It can walk and hide and do things. And, you know, the same with the dog. It’s born, and it can, like, feed itself from its mom, of course, but it knows how to eat. And within six months it’s useful!

Leigh: Well, within seven weeks it’s eating regular, like, dog kibble and not really on its mom’s milk anymore. Yeah, and it’s just…

Brandon: In less than two months. Yeah, it’s it’s way, way faster. In less than two months, it doesn’t even need…. Yeah…. It’s mom’s milk. And actually they start training service dogs, um, at six months to one year old. So between six months old and one year old, the dog is already smart enough to be a service dog. What’s a service dog, Leigh?

Leigh: A service dog is a dog that is used to help a human. And it can help blind people…

Brandon: Right. Like if you cannot see, for example, the service dog might make sure that you stop before crossing the road.

Leigh: Yeah, help you find stuff in your house.

Brandon: Right. Or if you were, uh, physically impaired…

Leigh: You could lean on the dog – help you get in and out of a chair or in and out of a car.

Brandon: Yeah. So you could put… you could lean on the dog, which means, like putting your weight on the dog to help you, um, stand up or to go up stairs, for example. Um, or, like Leigh said, getting into or out of a chair. So service dogs are specially trained dogs that help humans that have a special, um, need for assistance. Um, and is it just physical? 

Leigh: Physical or emotional. There’s a lot of emotional support dogs now. Uh, or if you have, like, seizures, a dog can know that you’re about to have a seizure and help you get to a safe position or a safe area.

Brandon: Yeah, I don’t really understand how that works, but there are dogs that are trained to know when their human is about to have a seizure. A seizure is a medical episode. I believe it’s nerve related, but where the human convulses, shakes, and loses control, um, and sometimes consciousness, but they lose control of their body and it can be very dangerous if you are not in a safe place. So these dogs, somehow…

Leigh: …know how to pick up on different activity that you do.

Brandon: They notice somehow that you are about to have a seizure. It’s really, really incredible. I guess all of this is just to say that by six months to one year old, dogs are very smart. They’re very developed compared to their human, uh, brothers and sisters…

Leigh: Who are still in diapers and crawling on the floor. They can’t walk yet.

Brandon: Humans are pooping and peeing in their pants for like at least two years, most of the time closer to three years. Um, can you imagine your dog…?

Leigh: Pooping, not being housebroken, not knowing to pee and poop outside for three years?

Brandon: That would be, that would be mind numbing. Which means that would be very annoying and very difficult to deal with. Um, and honestly, I think that’s probably why raising children is so, or can be… it’s very rewarding… but it can be very frustrating because you feel like you are doing these…

Leigh: For many different reasons, It can feel frustrating.

Brandon: For many different reasons.

Leigh: Um, but yeah, it’s the rewarding part. Uh, no, not the reward. 

Brandon: Yeah. I mean, well, no, I think you’re right. It gets more rewarding once the kids get to be…

Leigh: You get feedback from the kids. 

Brandon: What does that mean?

Leigh: Like they can talk to you. They can tell you, “I like that. I don’t like this.”

Brandon: Right. So it becomes, in other words, it becomes more rewarding once the kids know how to…

Leigh: Express themselves

Brandon: …or talk. Once they can speak, you can have fun conversations with them, and then they start learning to tell you, like…

Leigh: “My tummy hurts, I have to go poop. I have to go pee. I love you.” 

Brandon: Right. They tell you these things. Yeah, like yeah, “my tummy hurts”. Tummy means like your stomach, your belly. Um, if something hurts or if they are hungry or thirsty or they need to poop and…

Leigh: …They want to snuggle.

Brandon: Yeah. And then the fun stuff is when they say that they love you and they want to snuggle. What is snuggling?

Leigh: Being close together, maybe sitting on a couch or a chair and under a blanket, maybe, um, your arms around each other. 

Brandon: Yeah. You’re being physically close and sitting with your bodies… you know, a lot of times with a child, the kid is sitting on your lap, right? The kid is sitting on your legs, and you have your arms wrapped around the child. And maybe you sing songs or you read books, and that is…

Leigh: Rewarding.

Brandon: Very rewarding. More so than any reward you’re going to get from your dog.

Leigh: You can snuggle your dog, but it just doesn’t feel the same.

Brandon: Yeah, you. I guess you can snuggle your dog, which we have done.

Leigh: When we didn’t have kids…

Brandon: Before we had kids, yeah. 

Leigh: …we let our dogs on the couch.

Brandon: And in our bed!

Leigh: Yeah, that was something else. We stopped that early on. We stopped that. Once we got… once we got a second dog, we couldn’t all fit in the bed. And that was… that was enough.

Brandon: Right. Yeah. Once we got our second dog… because they were boxers, and those are not huge dogs, but they were 65 pounds. Yeah, 65 pounds, which is a lot of dog… trying to sleep with… to have two of those dogs plus two adult humans in one bed. That’s too many too many organisms in one bed. So we stopped that. But yes, you can snuggle with your dog. It’s just not the same. So we have been talking so far, mostly about how dogs are easier to raise than kids. Um, but there are, in some ways, there are aspects of raising a kid that are easier than raising a dog. Right?

Leigh: Well, back to the kids being able to respond to you at a certain age, but, being able to tell you, oh, I have to go pee and poop or I have to go…

Brandon: Right. So, well, let’s talk about potty training, for example. So obviously, you know, it’s 2 or 3 years before the child is ready to start potty training… but once they are ready…

Leigh: Once they are ready it took us a couple of days.

Brandon: Yeah. It took maybe two days for our girls.

Leigh: And yeah, more like 4 or 5 for our boy.

Brandon: Yeah, 4 or 5, maybe even a week, for our boy to really understand. But, why is it easier with kids?

Leigh: Because they can understand.

Brandon: They understand! Yeah, they know that… you can explain to them that, “Hello. You know, starting today…”

Leigh: No more diapers.

Brandon: No more diapers and…

Leigh: Pee and poop belong in the potty. 

Brandon: Yeah, pee and poop… they want to be in the potty. They need to go in the potty.

Leigh: It feels good to get them in the potty. 

Brandon: It feels good to poop and pee in the potty instead of in your pants. And the kids understand this. Whereas, like when you’re potty training a dog…

Leigh: It’s just, yeah, repetition. And they… you’re happy and you… they get a treat when they go outside.

Brandon: Right? It’s just like, yeah, repetition and conditioning. You’re basically creating a habit for your dog, but your dog doesn’t like intellectually understand.

Leigh: Why it needs to go outside.

Brandon: Right. It doesn’t understand human rules. And there’s no way to explain those rules to a puppy. Right? (Leigh: good luck). Yeah. Good luck. It’s just a matter of trying to create a habit by repetition, which you get to the same goal both ways, right? The dog ends up learning and the child ends up learning.

Leigh: But yeah, their bladders get bigger.

Brandon: The dog’s bladder, yeah.

Leigh: They’re able to hold it longer.

Brandon: What’s a bladder, Leigh?

Leigh: It’s where your urine, your urine collects and your body. 

Brandon: Yeah, so the bladder. Yeah. That’s where your pee, your urine is stored in your body. And really, the dog gets potty trained when it sort of learns the habit.

Leigh: To have to hold its urine. And the bladder increases in size. 

Brandon: Right. So the dog starts learning the habit, and at the same time, the dog’s bladder gets bigger. So it no longer needs to pee so frequently. And when those two things come together, your dog is potty trained.

Leigh: But it’s the same with kids, so the kids have to do the same thing. 

Brandon: Yeah, that… I guess that part is similar with kids, but overall, I think that being able to explain the goal to the child makes it much easier to teach new behaviors (Leigh: correct) compared to a dog that has to learn those behaviors by repetition and conditioning. Because the dog literally cannot understand what you are telling it. (Leigh: Right.) Any other examples like that? Leigh, where maybe it’s easier with children because they can understand things?

Leigh: Uh, well, with our kids going to the doctor or going to the dentist.

Brandon: So going to a new place? Yes. Like an airplane, even, flying on an airplane.

Leigh: Explaining, or like role playing, that we’re going to go do this. This is what to expect.

Brandon: You mean like ahead of time? What do you mean?

Leigh: We explain it, we role play it, before we go to show them what to expect. Yeah. And, um, yeah. And then once we get there, they. Yeah, they know what to expect. They know “Okay, the doctor is going to put a stethoscope on your chest and listen to your heart”. And they are good with it because they know what to expect.

Brandon: They are okay with it, right, because, you know, that’s what we do before we go to the doctor all day, we will play with the kids, and it’s actually “role playing”, which means you are pretending to be doing something that you are not actually doing in real life. So we are pretending that we are at the doctor, and Leigh might pretend…

Leigh: To be the doctor or the nurse…

Brandon: Yeah, that she’s the doctor or the nurse and um, and then practice saying, “okay, show me your tummy and let me…”

Leigh: “I’m gonna feel your tummy now” or…

Brandon: “Okay, I’m going to listen to your heart now”. And the kids get comfortable so that when they go to the doctor later that day…

Leigh: They’re like “Okay, I know the doctor is going to listen to my heart with the stethoscope and it’s gonna touch my tummy.”

Brandon: And it doesn’t seem, like, new or scary.

Leigh: Scary, yeah. Which, it really worked for shots this time around. (Brandon: What are shots?) Shots, injections. Like, um, vaccines. Um, for the kids, the flu vaccine or whatever they’re getting for that visit. Uh, but we talked about “yeah, we’re getting shots”. We have a doctor “play kit” for the kids.

Brandon: Yeah, we have a toy, a set of toys, that look like all the things that a doctor would use.

Leigh: Yeah. And so we say, yeah, “this appointment, when we go to the doctor, you’re going to get a shot”. And. Yeah. Explain that to them, “and you get your shot in your leg and it’s going to hurt.”

Brandon: And we tell them…it will hurt. Right.

Leigh: Yeah. Yeah. We said “it’ll hurt. It’ll pinch but then it’ll go away and you’ll be okay. And you’ll get a sticker.”

Brandon: It’ll hurt. It’ll pinch. A pinch is like a small pain, but then it will go away. The pain will stop. And then you get…

Leigh: A sticker or a sticker. 

Brandon: Yeah, you get a reward. A sucker is like a little candy on a stick. And a sticker is a little piece of paper that (Leigh: it sticks to…). Yeah, it has adhesive on one side. So you can stick it to things and it might be their favorite cartoon character…you know, it might be Mickey Mouse or Superman. Yeah. Uh, something like that. And they love stickers.

Leigh: So they… Laney when the doctors… the doctor left, and it’s the nurse that comes in to give shots and she (the doctor) left… and she (our daughter) said, “but we’re supposed to get shots.”

Brandon: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. So the doctor left the room after… So at their appointments, the doctor talks to each of the children and listens to their heart, and the doctor evaluates the children to make sure they are healthy. And then the doctor leaves. And that’s the end of talking to the doctor. And after that, at the very end of the appointment, the nurse comes in and gives the shots. Well, when the doctor left.

Leigh: Because we told her the doctor will give her shots.

Brandon: Yeah. When we were role playing, we had said that the doctor would give the shots. So when the doctor left, Laney was…

Leigh: “We were supposed to get shots! We didn’t get our shots!” 

Brandon: She was confused and upset because she thought, “hey, I’m supposed to get a shot! Why did I not get a shot?” And it was pretty funny. But that is all to say that the role playing works, and there’s no way to do that with… with a dog. So when you take your dog to a new experience, it can be very stressful for the dog. 

Leigh: Yeah, they don’t know what to expect. They’ve never been here before.

Brandon: And yeah. And furthermore, there’s no way to tell them that it’s okay. Right? You can say it’s okay, but there’s no way to get in their head and convince them that this situation is okay.

Leigh: Okay, so now we can talk about the similarities between raising kids and raising dogs.

Brandon: So like what?

Leigh: What they have in common.

Brandon: So yeah, I mean so we’ve read a number of books on training dogs.

Leigh: And raising children.

Brandon: And on raising children. And it seems like no matter what book or expert you talk to, there’s a few things,

Leigh: Core concepts,

Brandon: Yeah, core concepts that are found in all of these books. Right. All of the experts on dogs and all of the experts on kids seem to say a few of the same things, right? 

Leigh & Leigh: Structure, structure like boundaries, like rules basically. Rules.

Brandon: So the kid doesn’t, the kid or the dog, does not get to do whatever it wants, right? 

Leigh: Right. It knows… knows what’s expected.

Brandon: Yeah. Yeah. That’s a good way to put it. The dog or the child knows what is expected and it knows what’s…

Leigh: What they cannot do. 

Brandon: Yeah. It knows what’s acceptable and what’s not acceptable. Right. And so that’s um, boundaries. So setting these boundaries, these rules, these limits, you see that in every parenting book. And you see that in every dog training book. Right. 

Leigh: And then if they break the rules… Or if they cross that boundary, then there are consequences.

Brandon: When they test, you know, when they test those boundaries. Um, so what’s an example, Leigh?

Leigh: For a dog or for a human?

Brandon: Either way, both.

Leigh: Um, dog… like “leave it” or “drop it”.

Brandon: Yeah. So if the dog is, um, chewing on something it’s not supposed to chew on. (Leigh: your shoe). Yeah, like your shoes. So chewing is like, you know, where you chew up your food… like humans chew our food before we swallow it. Well, dogs…

Leigh: …Just like to chew on everything. Even if they’re not going to eat it.

Brandon: Right. They chew. It’s healthy, actually. It’s a compulsive behavior that’s very healthy and necessary for dogs. But you have to teach them. You have to make rules for what they can chew and what they cannot chew. Right?

Leigh: So when they start to chew on your shoe, there are consequences, right? They don’t get to chew on your shoe sometimes.

Brandon: Right? So yeah, you take the shoe away. You don’t just let them chew on the shoe. They’re not allowed to do that. So you take the shoe away.

Leigh: And you give them something that they can chew on..

Brandon: Right. And you give them something that’s acceptable to chew on. Or like our kids, for example, if we say…

Leigh: They don’t chew on shoes.

Brandon: They don’t chew on shoes… normally. Um, but if we say, “don’t touch that knife”. A knife is like, you know, the utensil when you’re eating… to cut your food. Yeah. You cut your food with a knife. So when we’re making dinner, we might have a very sharp knife on the counter, on the on the table, in the kitchen. And we might say (Leigh: you can’t touch that), don’t touch that knife. And that’s the rule, right. And if they touch that knife… because they want to test those boundaries…

Leigh: “What happens if I touch the knife?”

Brandon: Yeah. They want to know. Well what you said. Don’t touch it. But what’s what happens if I do touch it? And of course, then we have to move the knife and then there’s some consequence. Maybe they don’t get to be in the kitchen anymore. Right? You have to remove them from that scenario. And they learn that “if I test these rules, there will be consequences”. There will be some form of, you know, I don’t like the word punishment, but there will be some consequence for doing things I’m not supposed to.

Brandon: Right. And so that’s… what’d we say? Boundaries and then consequences.

Leigh: And then consistency with the consequences. Right. Like I was saying, you can’t chew on the shoe sometimes. 

Brandon: Well what is consistency, Leigh?

Leigh: Like repetitive, every time, the same outcome.

Brandon: Right. Consistent means it’s the same every time. It’s always the same. It does not change.

Leigh: So every single time you cannot chew the shoe. Every single time you cannot play with the knife.

Brandon: Right. Every single time the rules are the same and the consequences are the same. So… And I feel like both kids and dogs need that consistency because they need to know, again, what to expect. It helps them to understand and to be confident in themselves and their behavior. And they know what you want and what is not allowed. And without that consistency, like, if today we let the dog on the bed or on our couch, but then tomorrow it’s not allowed… 

Leigh: It would be confused! It wouldn’t know how to act.

Brandon: That would be super confusing. And the same thing for the kids if they are allowed to, let’s say, to hit, you know, “hitting” like punching, using your hand to strike something, if they are allowed to hit one another, or to hit me and Leigh today, then tomorrow they are going to assume they are still allowed to do that, right? 

Leigh: …To do it to other people. 

.

Brandon: Yeah. And so those rules have to be the same all the time.

Leigh: Another note on consistency is meaning what you say for both kids and dogs. So you don’t just say, “don’t do that, don’t do that”. And then there never is a consequence.

Brandon: Right. So if you say “do not do this” and the child or the dog does that, then you have to follow through with whatever the consequence is. So I mean, how many times… hey, listen, parenting is super hard, and we don’t judge anybody, but you do see that, when, you know, when a child is misbehaving and a parent says, “if you keep doing that, we’re… going home.”

Leigh: “We’re gonna go home.”

Brandon: “We’re going home, we’re leaving the party”. And they say that over and over…

Leigh: …and they never follow through. So the kid keeps acting the way it’s acting.

Brandon: Right. And they don’t… and they never go home. And the kid learns that the parent does not mean what they say.

Leigh: It doesn’t mean anything when my mom says that.

Brandon: Right. It doesn’t mean anything. In other words, my mom made a rule, but there was no consequence, and so I don’t have to listen. And yeah, so it’s so important with… and with dogs too, right? If we say no, the answer is no. I can’t say, “No, don’t chew on that” – and then let them chew on that.

Leigh: And then let them chew on that.

Brandon: …then let them chew on it. That’s absolutely unacceptable because they will learn that the boundary does not exist. The rule is not real because there are no consequences. So… just super, super important to be consistent in whatever you decide your approach is with kids…

Leigh: Or dogs.

Brandon: Kids or dogs. Consistency is really, really key… is really important.

Leigh: We will end on that note. We hope you enjoyed listening to our conversation today, and we hope this podcast is helping you learn English.

Brandon: Yeah, acquire English, right? We hope this is helping you to become fluent naturally and automatically just by listening to interesting content. Well…

Leigh: …or not so interesting content.

Brandon: …or not so interesting content. But we really do try to make it fun and enjoyable to listen to these episodes. Of course, when it is a conversation between the two of us, it’s probably a little bit more difficult than the episodes where I am speaking by myself. But use that challenge to become even better and even more in tune with your English comprehension. So thank you again for listening to the entire episode. Send us an email…. the address is brandon@speakeasyenglish.club

Leigh: We would love to hear from you.

Brandon: We would love to hear from you. And don’t forget to leave us a…

Leigh: Five star review!

Brandon: A five star review! That will help us to reach even more listeners just like you that are trying to become fluent in English. Alright guys, that’s all for now. Until next time…

Leigh & Brandon: Cheers! Cheers!